Nax or some other 10 man

So we made it We have cleared plague quater Now as the fight is over and we 'lick' our wounds I would like to point out few things

First of all it took us 6 hours (six!) to clear this wing. We all know it's learning curve and we made a lot of mistakes. We have to die and try and die and try again before we master it and it's fine but I'm more worried about other things.

1. Our DPS is too low for raids. I am sorry to say it but we are slacking Recommended setup is 3 healers, 2 tanks and 5 DPSs pumping out 14,000 DPS as group. This means that each and every one DPS should pupmp out at least 3k DPS. We are nowhere near it Our DPS ranges from 1.2k - 1.8 or 2k which means we have 1.5k on average giving us 9,000 DPS as group with 6 DPSs (so 1 more than recommended!). We have skills to make through it and we have prooved it today but we still need more DPS as group.

2. We are gearing other people up and not our guild on these runs. Most of the loot from both wings went to outsiders. Now - devoting 6h of game play just to train and get out with almost nothing (we got few bits to be fair!) is not right.

These two points above lead me to a conclusion that maybe (again - MAYBE) we should leave Naxx for now and farm all HCs instead and gear up everyone as much as we can up to the last ring. Get emblems, buy all what emblems can buy, get every single piece of loot there is to get to improve our gear and then move on to Naxx. Tune your builds, work on rotations, cross 3k mark on DPS and then get back to Naxx. Wait untill we have full 10 man squad ready to go to work for our progress not giving loot away. In fairness all outsiders who got loot fully deserved it and there is no question about it but as long as they helped us to clear these wings it was very little improvement to our Guild gear wise and apart from fun that's what raiding is about - improvement.

Think how much emblems and loot we could get over these 6h doing HCs runs.

These are only my thoughts. It was AWESOME fun there today with you lads and I had a blast but I think we could benefit more focusing on HCs for now, gearing up and working on our builds to pump out even more dps.

I don't want to sound negative but I think we rushed into raiding a bit. At least DPSs. Our healer is imba both Tanks are great but we really, really need more DPS

Think about it lads and let me know what you think

Well to say the truth you may be right!

I really never went into DPS class that deep but I dont know about gear and DPS amount. I mean regardless what they say about that Nax 10 should be on same gear level as heroi instances so if we can do that we can do this. Now I read this on tanking forums maybe it refers only for tanks don't really know. But look at HCs; on Loken in HoL there is a big chance all will wipe again same with Anubarak in AN. Here we wasted much time doing the second boss that took up more than 3 hours I think. From these two wings only gear issue is last boss of plague quarter others are just games and runabouts At least that's my feeling about it!

Regardless, I would suggest you DPSers make gear check, make instance list so we can start farming in some order and we can try Nax again on weekend. Think spider wing is easy with Twilla method of stopwatch, and first 2 bosses here. Sadly only improvement for me is on first boss in spider and last one in plague

We could also get some gear doing VoA and OS 10 man - both are way shorter and easier than Naxx.

For me - I could use this ring that droped for Kolxa yesterday (can't remember where it was ) and apart from that I just need emblems, emblesm, oh - and more emblems. At the moment need 80 for new chest.

I sorted out both trinkets, neck, belt, gloves, sigil, weapon, boots, head.

I need to improve legs (have nice epic ones but for tank...), chest, shoulders, bracers and both rings. I can't buy bracers, legs and shoulders for emblems. Tokens for them drop in raids unfortunatelly (also in VoA and OS!!!) so all I need is 80 emblems for new chest and 2 rings from drops.

Maybe we could try run VoA and OS next time?

Spider wing is easy and we can make it as we are. Our dps is ok there.

Plague wing - first boss after 3rd wave of skeletons enrages so we need to burn him down quick. We made it but was close. 2nd boss is just 'dancing'. DPS doesn't matter that much as there's no enrage timer and all we have to do is to stay alive. 3rd boss - no matter what you say we CAN NOT make it with our 6 DPSs. We took our chance there bringing 8 DPSs today on last try and just one healer and tank and it was close call as we almost wiped. From my point of view we are not able to take him down with 5 or 6 DPSs at this stage in under 5min.

Maybe some other wing doesn't involve enrage timers. We could check it out.

At this stage I guess we should farm as much HCs as we can, run VoA and OS for nice and quick upgrades (mind we still don't have 10 man guild squad which means upgrades might not neccesarily end up in our hands)

Sounds good:)

I'd like to point out that " Recommended setup is 3 healers, 2 tanks and 5 DPSs pumping out 14,000 DPS as group. This means that each and every one DPS should pupmp out at least 3k DPS ".

In context, that HC VH run with did had a druid doing upto 3.8k DPS and he was mostly tier 7.5. See what i mean?

My point being:

Yes - Kolxa, Twila Leannah and Silahco need to gear up.
Yes - We all * Need * to know the tactics. Why? Not fair for on one person to do all the work.
Yes - It'd help an awefull lot if we all could speak over Vent. We had some good tactics / plans going on Vent.
Yes - VOA and Sarth are easyier to do, better for coordination, better for teamwork, easy gear upgrades.
Yes - We all could do with using potions / food. We all the proffs in-guild. Use them!
( Without trying to sound too Elitist )

But in the end i realy think that raiding isn't going to be like doing a heroic, its not gona be fun and games ( Oh the irony ). Team effort - How we do as a raid and guild depends on all of us.

I'd have to agree that we should do VOA and Sarth before we try to continue into Naxx.


Note on the gearing up side: We have all the reqs for any heroic run, make a list of all the heroics you need. Post it. We'll run it.

six hours? if this was your first try it was good! it will take half the time maximum next time

Yeah a lot of good point was made and your right i NEED to gear up... But luckely i see some relativly easy ways for me to increase my dps output... I still have some armor that are i desperet need of uppgrade and i will make a list and post it later today during my lunch....

Ooooh and another thing it wasent the most graceuse naxx run yesterday but it was fun and i think we all learnd alot.... and the last fight was suspens wice EPIC....

Hehe Spider we spent 6 hours in Plague quarter alone.......

Anyway gear wise I fell into controlling mood this morning and looked up a bit into armory profiles. What I would like to say is this:
people please enchant and socket your gear to fullest, there are some great arcanums for head item enhancment form rep rewards you need to be exalted for some but with tabards bringing in rep in HCs its easy, also leg enhancment from leatherworking (shoulder also); sons of Hodir have great enhancment for shoulders but it need exalted work your way up to them. Remember that Buc can fashion eternal belt buckle which will give you additional gem socket into your belt. And enchantments are also there. Without kidding I have burned about 2 k gold to get ready for Nax (my enhancments are a bit more expensive then for DPS so youll probably pull through easier).
I think that all these enhancments pumped up my gear a good 20% if not even more, so be mindfull of that!
Remember to exploit our proffesions to fullest:
Both me and Aka are alchemist and can fashion pretty much anything if you bring us mats
I am Sure Sil can cut you gems if you get him mats, just as Heavy can enchnat some stuff for you.

Yea last fight was realy epic 1 tank 1 healer 8 DPS for recomendation 2 tanks 3 healers and 5 DPS!

Teshija wrote:Both me and Aka are alchemist and can fashion pretty much anything if you bring us mats
I am Sure Sil can cut you gems if you get him mats, just as Heavy can enchnat some stuff for you.

I just like to point out as well thet twila is tailor and me im Inscription so i have some nice scrolls (that dont take up a elixir spot) and glyph´s
I just skilled up cooking as well so me and Aka kan make those.

So to my knollage what you need to buff up for a raid (Excluding class specific buffs) is Food, raid postion (or if you want to 1 guardien elixir and 1 battle elixir) and scrolls this will all stackup nicely... Plz post if i misst anything.

To to what Tes sad earlyer keep everything socaded and enchanted but alsaw have the right glyph. Glyphes are realy overpriced on AH so if you need one let me knowe and i see if i can make it.... On any given glyph you souldent pay more then about 5-10 gold in mate cost depending on the herb market

Shoulder enchants avaliable from The Sons of Hodir faction > http://www.wowhead.com/?faction=1119#items:0+1+4.

Requires a quest chain to be completed before you can start gathering rep. Quests are in Storm Peaks.

Note: I'm a cook with loads of token bought recipes, mainly caster food but i'm gathering all the melee food too. Bring me mats and you get food!

I need to gear up too I finally found pants for me in HCs Last boss in UK drops epic dps pants which I'd love to get to replace the tanking ones I'm wearing atm. Apart from that I would need this ring from Gundrak that dropped for Kolxa the other night and that's about it. Second ring I'll probably get off some JC who can make titanium impact band. Pants and 2 rings will fully sort our right armor slots for a while. On the left hand side I need new shoulders, cloak, chest and bracers... Yes, almost everything apart from neck and helm. I still can't find better helm than my lvl72 epic dps googles from engi so I guess I'll stick with it. Now... to get shoulders and bracers I have to raid as there are no further upgrades in HCs for them and I can't buy tokens in vendor as they are drop only (unless I buy token for emblems of valor from HC raids... and I have 11 only so it's a no-go atm). Only thing I could get before getting into raids again is chest for 80 emblems. And I have... 8 as I spent rest of my emblems on a new neck yesterday. For cloak I will need emblems of valor (HC raids) or some raid drop as there is no tailoring receipe for melee DPS cloak.

Getting to the bottom line:

1. Items which I can get before getting into raids:

Gundrak - dps ring
Utgarde Keep - dps pants
JC - titanium impact band
Vendor - chest for 80 emblems which means a lot of farming in HCs

2. Further upgrades:

Shoulders - token drop from raids / HC raids
Bracers - drop from raids / vendor for emblems of valor (HC raids)
Cloak - raid drop or maybe something on AH but haven't seen any better than what I have atm (HC blue drop)

I think my weapon is good enough as there is only 1 axe better than what I have and I think it drops from one of last bosses in HC raid.

All my gear is fully enchanted. Ok - some enchants could be better (for example replace icewalker on boots with AP enchant) but I need to keep balance to not loose hit cap (301 atm) and some enchants are there simply to increase hit so I can't replace them yet with more AP enchants unless I get better gear with hit rating which will allow me to keep 300 hit without enchants and then put more AP instead.

Apart from that I always have Flask of Endless Rage to increase my AP for 2h (persist through death but counts as battle and guaridan elixir) and AP food and Scroll of Strenght VIII. That's about it as I can't see anything else what I could take with me there.

If any of you need some enchanting done I have 450 on Heavy with every single receipe from Dalaran including latest ones from 3.0.8 patch. I can also offer 450 Blacksmithing on Buc for belt buckles, weapons and some bits of tanking/DPS plate armor. On Nahimana I have 450 Alchemy with most of potions and elixirs and I'm doing researches every 3 days to find something new. Buc also have 415 cooking but no Dala receipes yet - just the trainer ones you get from cooking trainer in Northrend.

As to the shoulders enchants - these are great Aka but I guess I need new shoulders first to put them on so I have time now to farm rep before I get new shoulders

EDIT:

I definitelly have to do some work on my build as I read I should be capable of 3k DPS with my gear and AP (3000AP atm) so either my build is wrong or my rotation has to be changed. I need to try few builds on dummies maybe and also check how DW spec works for DPS comparing to 2h which I'm using atm.

I am wondering if my high latency (usually 500-600ms in raids) and low fps (7-15fps) affects my DPS... Don't know what I can do to improve it. Comuter upgrade is out of question atm but I'm working on getting better internet connection. Not sure whether my internet connection speed affects it (latency and fps I mean).

Harware should be ok-ish according to Blizz recommended settings. I use laptop with Win XP SP3, AMD Turion 1.8GHz 64bit, 2GB DDR RAM, ATI Radeon X700 128MB and few GB of free space on HD. I know my graphic card is really old (as is my laptop) but Blizz recommends (this is recommended, not minimum):

* 1 GB RAM (2 GB recommended for Mac and Vista Users)
* Multi-button mouse with scroll wheel recommended
* Dual Core Processor
* ATI Radeon™ X1600 with 128MB VRAM or better
* Intel Processor

So I'm ok with RAM and my 128MB graphics should be ok too. Not sure what to do to improve performance so if any of you have some ideas please let me know I might try to re-install system but when I think of all these upgrades and patches for windows incl. S3 I would have to download... brrr...

To sum it up:

Please let me know if you have some idea as to how I can improve my fps and latency and if anyone have some xp with DKs please post some build/roation

Looks like your hardware is the problem.

My FPS drops to about 50ish in raids.

But yes - Your latency and hardware does effect your performance ingame. Its much much worse for healers, My lifeblooms are refreshed in the alast half a second. If i get higher MS ( Normaly 25-120 ) then my healing timing is off and my mana efficiency goes down.

Hmm, my FPS drop from normal 60 to 45 -50 in raids when all dps jump in the same moment with effecta san all it drops to 30 then comes back up. MS are around 150! But I play with all settings at highest level. So start there: How are your settings like. Drop down your resolution and in game effects. And keep addons to bare minimum. I have completly kicked out some, and now living on pitbull, omen, onebag, fubar, cartographer (only basic selections) and questhelper!
Also there is that option in video tab Aka told me about after you check on window you can check triple buffering, when I do that my FPS jump to 75!

Also when my comp starts to be sluggish I perform disc defragmentation and cleaning, that boosts me up a bit too!

Teshija wrote:Hmm, my FPS drop from normal 60 to 45 -50 in raids when all dps jump in the same moment with effecta san all it drops to 30 then comes back up. MS are around 150! But I play with all settings at highest level. So start there: How are your settings like. Drop down your resolution and in game effects. And keep addons to bare minimum. I have completly kicked out some, and now living on pitbull, omen, onebag, fubar, cartographer (only basic selections) and questhelper!
Also there is that option in video tab Aka told me about after you check on window you can check triple buffering, when I do that my FPS jump to 75!

Also when my comp starts to be sluggish I perform disc defragmentation and cleaning, that boosts me up a bit too!

My fps in raids is between 1 fps (when we jump on boss) to 19 fps max :/ All settings are low so I don't think that's the case.

I have some serious problems with latency though. Today when I logged on I was at 150 (yay!) and 2min later at over 5000 :/ Something's wrong with my lap or ISP. Checked trace route and there are some 'hickups' on the way but all in all 300ms is the highest one. Why am I getting up to 5k in game? And why after logging in I'm at 150? Can't get my head around it. It's not overheating either as when I relog I'm back at 150 and 2min later again 5k... It was really bad this morning. Usually in raids I am at 500-600ms when I'm lucky with 19fps top... I defragmented HD, cleaned all trash, done virus scan and ad-aware scan. Nothing... Maybe there's some virus my software can not track? I guess formatting my HD is the only way to find out unless it's a little meanie that will hide on HD as damaged sector... Pfff... Guess tomorrow I'll spent most of my time re-installing windows and all updates or drivers and XP... If this won't help then I don't know what to do with it... Next month I hope to change ISP. Maybe this will help a bit too.