What to do whit ICC 10 man

Well this is a question i have been pondering sins we lost some players these past weeks and here is my thoughts on the subjekt

First off all i think we all have showen we can proggress in ICC if we want to... and we are now at 10/12 in there.... However i do relise players still need and want gear and achiv from the first bosses aswell (although i do bellewe its not that many). So my suggestion is that we try starting 2 groups for ICC each week but whit no promises the second one will go ahead. Now we will extend the lock from time to time but reset it aswell some time so players can get ashiv, loot and also experiens from bosses like like proffessor, bloodwing and dreamwaker. However our proggres raid will be saved on a toons we are not using (me, shaah and bere have a few atleast). I think its realy a tribut to all of you that helped on the proggress this week and got saved for only a chanse to down a boss instead of pugging a fresh run, it realy show that we have the commitment to get it done.... However one thing to remamber now is that the more we proggres the more we can farm later aswell.... Sins we now have 10 players (not me included) that have experiens from Bloodwing and dreamwalker i think if we get 5 or 6 of them in for next run we will be able to down blood esily and then we have 15 players that now it and so on.... This way we will all get loot, achiv and experiens from all the fights and start farming more in less time....

Well as i said from the start this is just my thoughs on the subjekt. What do the rest of you think? First of all shall we let the raid reset on Wensday?

I am against reset at this time. We are only 2 from kill and possible 1 when will be time to reset. IMO its more valuable to get experience needed to get the LK down and then start on the farm. With possible 2 groups or memebers rotation on 1 group. This way we will have week to figure out LK, if we reset now IMO we might not be able to do it in 2 or even more weeks time, since we do not raid hard core every day. But 2 or 3 days a week.

But OFC ill go with majority here.

I fully understand and I also want to progress.

I think it is sad like last week when there were no guild raid for me.

Last week I played in pug groups, icc10 (9/12 killed) and icc25 (4/12 killed).

In the icc10 I got 24 frost last week; 9 bosses, 1 miniboss and quest.

I cannot start until earliest 20.15 on wed, I can normally join on thur.

But if I know it is not going to be a fresh icc10 on thur then I can make a pug group on wed and then join on thursday in guild progress group (if there is a spot).

In other words, I think it would be really good if we can decide early if there will be a fresh icc10 group on thur or not, and not decide 19.45 on thursday.

I agree with Lillknekten. This should be decided ASAP!

Lillknekten wrote:
But if I know it is not going to be a fresh icc10 on thur then I can make a pug group on wed and then join on thursday in guild progress group (if there is a spot)

How do you want to join on thursday if you get saved on wednesday? Unless you want to pug ICC25 on wednesday and then join progress ICC10 on thursday

If there is no fresh ICC10 on thursday I will find a pug group on wed
i cannot join guild raid wed because I work until 19.45

Well Lillekneckten If you only will be 30 min late its ok we can clear trash and so as long as we knowe that you can come at 20.15...

Well regardless if we extend or not there will still be an open signe up and we pick players from that signe up to raid....

But before we make any desition i want to hear from other players aswell...

I can see bouth argument here 1/ to reset so we can get gear, experiens and ashiv or 2/ extend and get down atleast syndragosa.... I just want to point out that if we extend it it will be the second Week in a row we do so. Now that is not nessasery either good or bad i just want all to have a chanse to get heard here so noone feels steamrolled so to say....

Lillknekten wrote:If there is no fresh ICC10 on thursday I will find a pug group on wed
i cannot join guild raid wed because I work until 19.45

I commented this on another post aswell... If you knowe you will be say 39 min late or so you can let the raidleader knowe that and then we will knowe it and if possible make some kompensation to make it fitt.... The problems comes if players signes up and then are 30 min late without letting the raidleader knowe. Then the raid dont knowe if that player will be 30 min, 1 hour, 2hour late or wont show up at all....

So i say dont be afraid to signe up on wensday and mail Twila ingame and tell him you will be 30 min late and if that is something we can work in to the raid then you will have a chanse to get a spot like everyone ells...

IMO we should do things like this.
End this raid tommorow, whatever we make it or not on Sindragosa. Kill off that raid. Today make 2 days open (wensday, thursday) in calendar for people to apply till wensday. Decide on 1 or 2 groups depending on people applying, free time and alts on which an individual can go with on raids, etc.... so people can get gear, emblems and achivments...Point is gearing up wise its better to reset, but that kills off progress.
So we farm for 2 weeks (2 lockdown periods) which are reset ofcourse starting with wensday. I myself can actually use gear from first six bosses rather then last ones. After those 2 lockouts we form up progress group again and try to kill off LK. We give that raid 2 weeks time. If we fail then its farming time again for two weeks and we rotate.

But if we look at it from serious stand point. If the people are serious about raiding we can clear all the way up to Sindragosa in 2 raiding days per 3 hours a day. First seven bosses can be cleared in 3 hours IMO if all have their foot on the ball. Other 3 can be done in an hour and a half which still leaves hour and a half for wiping on Sindragosa.

Also I would propse to start raiding maybe an hour earlier, around 7. Dont know if it works for all but we can see.

In the pug group i played last wed we wiped 3 times during the raid and we killed 9 bosses in 2h

But everyone knew tactics and had achivment for plaqueworks.

Thank you for allowing me to be a little late

Just add my 2 penneth, my situation is that I can raid Tuesday, Wednesday every week and alternate weekends.

With regard to this week’s raiding, I have pretty much got all the frost gear i need. There are drops for me on boss 5 & upwards, but I will go with the majority of the group regarding a reset or continuation (that’s if I am included of course).

Thanks
Reik

Good responses so far and i think we make a desition tomorrow to alow more players to have there say...

I agree whit you Tesh i think a rotation sounds good however it might be enought to do 1 week farm 1 week proggress sins we will save the progress raid on an alt (atleas for now) so when its time for progress week we can revaive it again... and dont have to clear all the trash again. Also as you said nothing is to say that the "farm" week want down all the bosses up to sindregosa.... Plus imo we dont have to do plauge first we can maybee do Festergut and rootface and then go on to blood wing or dreamwaker depending on our group configuration...

Well anyways more thoughts here and we settle this tomorrow...

And Ofc lillekneckten.. But i cant promis any spots sins we will have to see who signes up as usual and then see ... But as i said its not a problem if 1 player is a little late...

Lillknekten wrote:In the pug group i played last wed we wiped 3 times during the raid and we killed 9 bosses in 2h

Really this is what we should strive for, that way we would both have farm and progress raid in one literraly.

Teshija wrote:

Lillknekten wrote:In the pug group i played last wed we wiped 3 times during the raid and we killed 9 bosses in 2h

Really this is what we should strive for, that way we would both have farm and progress raid in one literraly.

It's not that I wanna point fingers, because our raid leaders does a very good job and put a lot of effort into, but we do in fact spend an awful lot of time talking about tactics before each boss.. One time I checked the clock, it took almost 20 minutes from when we arrived to boss before we actually started the fight. Think it was Festergut or Rotface and it wasn't even our first visit to these rotten fellows, but even if was first visit 20 minutes shouldn't be necessary for tactics..

Well yea, but on rotface it was good since lot of us didnt know what to do with the blobs really and you know hw much Lea likes the word

Ill go and hide now, preferaly loooooong way from the tool shed

I agree with Berg.
We do take 20-30 minutes before each boss.

Thing is, even IF everyone in the raid has read the tactics on wowwiki before, we still need time to recap and decide who's standing where and doing what.
(Side Note: It will take more than 30 mins for the Lich King)

Because of this, for this week's raids, what I think we should do is either reset the instance and progress raid (all bosses up to Sindragosa) with 5-6 people who have the gear to progress in ICC10, yet have not been able to do so yet.
(I.E.: Leannah, Fahrao, Missliss, Happytree, Moolove, Reik, Lillk, Nizko, Hoeg, Steekbard, etc.)

Or else try to down Sindragosa again with people who have already wiped there a few times, and have experience with how the fight works.
(Silahco, Teshija, Buculus, Shanla, Berg, Nizko, Ulaath, Reik, Thammuz, Twila, Moolove, Muci, Schaah, Lupper)

We almost have enough people for two groups, though this is hard to organise since not everyone can sign up on both days.

To recap, my main point is that, if we reset the instance, we should form a raid with many people who are capable of progressing, yet have not yet done so, since even if there is only 1 person in the raid who is doing the bosses for the first time, then we're going to have to wait a long time at every boss to do the tactics.

First of all Tesh: Yeah you better hide...

Second: I agree whit you Twila about the having 5-6 new mambers and say 4-5 that have done it. Also yes it will take some time to describe tactics beforhand but verbal describtion is one thing personal experiens another. Knowing the fight in theory is no substitute to the real thing. Sins if we are only new players in raid we will have to reinvent the wheel so to say by practasing on every boss.... But i think we agree on this point sins we bouth thing 5-6 new players in the raid would be good.... But its also depends on who signes up.... And if we extend i also agree whit you we should take players that knowes the fight so we defelently get her down that week...

Ok i have keept my opinion on this to myself so far but here is mine. I think we should have a go at syndragosa tonight if we down here we reset and to a fresh run but if we are getting there i think we extend and try to get here down.... Atleast that is my 2 cents...

So i proposse (to the contrary to my earlier post) that we wait untill tomorrow to make this desitions sins we dont seam to have any real argument against continjuation or for it at this point...

On a side note: The conundrom we are faced whit here is that we have players that are very well geard and that want to proggres but we also have players that still need gear and that want to gear up some more to be able to help out to take down the harder bosses. Now for several mounths we have been farming the first bosses in ICC 10 man so i personaly think it is time for some proggres sins we now have many well geard players that can go all the way to lich king and also down him. Now in this case the players that will suffer are those whit not so good gear or that are newly dinged. The flipside is that we gear charecters up and very, very slowly get bosses down by players pugging ICC and learn tactics and experiens that way. Personaly i think there is a middle ground here. Maybee farm one week then do the proggres raid extention the next or maybee start a fresch run this week and extend if 1 week if need be and down all the bosses again up to the lich king and then spend a week atlest working on him.
I think the best way is to do as was done this week start whit 1 group and go on and if players from that group cant come the next day take in replaysments and so on sure players might be saved for only a few bosses but imo its better that way sins we then hopfully can raid 4-5 times this week but whit difrent players..... I for one dont have any problem commiting Nizzo, Lea and Jolly to this 1 raid....

However we will see how sindragosa goes tonight and see if we extend or not... so plz make your opinions heard...

My feelings are torn as I can see both sides of the argument.

Personally I have really been enjoying progressing, but conversely I want others to experience the progression too.

I would like to try Sindragosa tonight if possible as this may make the reset questions mute.

Ulaath wrote:
I would like to try Sindragosa tonight if possible as this may make the reset questions mute.

Couldnt agree more! We ove to the rest.!

Teshija wrote:

Ulaath wrote:
I would like to try Sindragosa tonight if possible as this may make the reset questions mute.

Couldnt agree more! We ove to the rest.!

Im not sure what you think here? If we get sindragosa down do you want to reset or to extend the raid. Either way we will save the raid progress on a alt to be used later if we want it.

If we got her down, we would surely have to extend?

I am not sure on how these extending mechanisms work, but I would try fresh raid from boss one in wensday/thursday regardless of the outcome tonight.

Really want to see us push throuh raid faster.

I see your point Ulaath but im agreeing with Tesh here. I think Lich King will be hard to get down and might take several days or weeks to learn and if we extend then we in all fairnes need to reset next week. However if most of player inguild want to extend then im all for it. This is good that you bring it up so we can see and discusse what to do. I only want everyone to have a chanse to raid some in the guild. But again i agree the time for farming is over atleast for a while now we need proggres.

However i for one have made a deal whit Fleshless. If i get in next week raid he will take my spot for the first 3-4 bosses he should be able to handle that after that i will jump in and continju. That way he get loot and experiens and i will get proggress plus we bouths get to raid. Now this will not ofc work if everyone do it but this way we get atleast 11 guildys raiding next week if we deside to extend.... And again the way you did it this week works well i think, aiming for 4-5 raiding days, we can see who can come and if not all can come we take in other players...

Let me repeat myself one more time. I dont see any particular reason why our raids cant be farming and progressing ones at the same time. We have the knowledge now and the skills. Most of the raid can be cleared in 3 hours of one day if all are focused and ready to rumble. That leaves other day to learning and bringging the new boss/es down.

If this approach proves to diggicult we can just extend, for a week to down new bosses. SO i think 2 weeks reset and two weeks extension is a good plan.

Ok, here are my 2c

1. What if it turns out that Marrowgar is a boss for weekly raid? Surely there's a lot of people who could use 5 additional emblems and will let the raid reset to do weekly raid while we farm ICC10. Unless they will try to pug ICC25 for weekly raid quest but not everyone is geared for it yet and they might look more into ICC10 at the moment.

2. PuGs raids are faster because:
a) they always want you to have achievement and by this they expect you to know the fight inside-out. Recap on tacs is down to assigning roles and ready check. Usually no vent, no tacs explained in raid chat.
b) if you fail or doesn't know tactics you will be surely replaced sooner or later so everyone's doing their best which is sadly not always the case on guild runs

3. I think if we fail on Sindragosa tonight we should let the raid reset and do all bosses again, gearing up on our way to Sindragosa again.