Tauren vs Orc as a tank

I was wondering the other day is there really that much of a difference between Taurens and Orcs as a tanks. Tauren seems to have nice racials (5%hp and warstomp) but is this makes them really a better tank than the orc? Which one is better for pvp then? Orcs with their stun resistance or Taurens?

I'd say it's personal preference. Racials don't make or break your game, at least they shouldn't! The taurens' +5% HP starts to shine when you reach high health (obviously). In my opinion orc is better for PvP; from my experience that stun resist helps a lot, I hate it when they resist my cheap/kidney shot, which happens quite often mind you. If you're a really hardcore player who wants absolutely the best stats for PvE you pick tauren, for PvP orc.

Tuhnu wrote: I hate it when they resist my cheap/kidney shot, which happens quite often mind you

Well tanking higher level instances like blood furnace, there are those guys that kidney shot you. I think my orc never resisted those. Im always bending over knee and looking how mobs start to run around. Hate those guys. And yeah Taurens 5% up at higher levels is awsome.

Id say Taurens win hands down in tanking, not so much pre end game raids.

I know alot of tanking warriors that have got to levle 70 tanked in raids and rerolled tauren, purely for the +5% hp.

Hmmm I should have stayed with my Tauren... now I'm kinda regret it but hey - let's see how my orc will perform So far I'm not aiming for MT in raids - more OT or DPS I always liked pvp more than pve even though I get ganked every now and then by casters as my pummel doesn't seem to work very well Yesterday got ganked 3 times by lvl42 lock - he didn't use his minion and killed me everytime within seconds which was really annoing. At the stage when I got to him (intercept) to pummel and hamstring I was already at 50% hp(!!!) and he was shielded so I could do f** all to him... On the top of this my axe swings every 3.8s (plus whirlwind which is instant) so it felt like ages between swings... And few seconds later I was biting the dust... Only once in these 3 encounters I got him to like 50% of his hp... Mefisto was his name Either twink or damn good player or locks are imba Or maybe it's me who can't play ^^ Damn dots are real pain in where my legs meet my back

Dont worry man, orcs are great tanx, its the skill not the 5% extra life.

Heh, I might need to improve my skills then

Locks are imba dont worry

Heheheh It's just lack of ranged attack that pisses me off When I get immobilized (let it be roots, ice, or even fear when I run off) I can do nothing but watch them nuking me. I have no spell reflect (or whatever it's called) when you use shield to strike caster with his own spell and pummel not always work. When they see me in the distance all I'm able to do is to use blood rage to get some rage for intercept and run to them (charge won't work as they already right clicked me). By then I'm usually with few dots and good bit of my hp is gone. I can't shield myself to use bandage in fight (like I used to do on pally and then LOH as an emergency button) and all I can do is to use pot (they can use them as well). I can't remove dots (curses or whatever) from myself (unless I use purification potion which is for lvl47 or so...) so sometimes I just die even if I killed ally because of this damn dots. Can't use bandage, and usually it's too late to eat and pot is on cd... Bit of a hard time I'm getting there

Hunters - concusive shots, freezing traps, intimidation (pets)...
Mages - blink, ice traps, sheep and they shield themselves
Priests - mindfly, shadownpain (? - this dot, whatever it's called), fear, vampiric touch and they shield themselves
Rogues - sap... not sure what else
Locks - loads of dots, fear, all these life drains and they shield themselves
Pallys - seals (which work outside mele range - slightly but still), LOH, stun, shield + bandage
Shamans - totems, and other stuff (haven't met many of them so far)
Druids - roots, travel form to run away and nuke from the distance, dots, regrowth, etc.

But having said that... when I get healer behind me in BGs...

Basically most of the classes have possibility to nuke from the distance. Pallys have LOH and shield, rogues can vanish...

What abilities can I use? Intercept, pummel, hamstring (on all of these I usually have 50% chance that they will be resisted or I miss), fear (lot of rage), whirlwind with long cd, mortal strike, sunder... Only dot's are rend and deep wounds after I crit but these can't take much of hp from enemy... Main problem is rage... can't get enough of it at the start of the fight, even with anger management. There are potions with rage but useing them means gcd on all pots. These can give 40-75 rage (from memory) and increase strenght. Very hard to buy them and herbs to make them (gromsblood) cost fortune on ah. Besides these are for lvl45 so not for me yet

Tell me it'll get better later on

Well as you said it: they wanna keep you at long range you wanna them on close. Thats way fury and beserker stance is much better for me. Hamstring slows them down a great deal, I only dont know whether or not it stacks with piercing howl, if it does enemies are practicly immobile I dont know couse I didnt go PVP with warrior yet, but I imagine it could be done. USE REND against rogues, keeps them from stealthing, and when you got feared, charmed or saped berserker rage is the ticket for that. Breakes the spells and makes you immune for 10 or more secs in the end I bealive. Concussion blow is great stuff, knocks them out for whole five secs, sadly you need 20 points in protection tree to have one so I think fury protection combo would be great for PvPing. Thats just my imagination from instance experience dont know wheter it will do good. But i think its lot better for PvP than anything arms has to offer. And as you know pummel, and shield slam for spell casting break Give me your opinions on this so we can continue the debate:)

Another thought.
This is all fine for battlegrounds, since its chaos over there anyways You try your best and that is all that is to it, you manage with what you can. For instance Im a hunter, if rogue gets me Im finished (even lower level ones), they ignore the pet and just hit you which is smart thing to do. Most of the time Im immobile and cant trap to get the heck away... Im dead. if warior or druid gets me Im dead. Frost trap + concusive shot and kiting with pet on them saves my skin, but traps have a 30 secs cooldown and if I put one already before that Im fried. Plus some ugly mage alwys see a poor warrior getting kited and blows me away from distance. Byebye Nyc. What I wanna say is: no matter how good you are and get the target up close or from afar, in Bg's some dolt will always get you from the close in the back all blast you from afar , just as you and me do it to someone else.
But arena teams, thats another story I guess. Then it's team work and interplay between teammates that keeps you alive. Its all new ball game. When are we making an arena team ?

Piercing howl doesn't stack with hamstring

Why arms is better for pvp? Improved hamstring - chance to immobilize for 5s, second wind - regenerates rage and health when you are stunned, mortal strike - all healing on target reduced by 50% (pots count as well!) so chances are they'll get very little hp and 2min cd on pots or their healer will be oom soon, improved intercept with 10s less cd, death wish - immune to fear and increased damage, anger management (for rage), improved overpower (will crit most of the times), and so on There's also this mace specilization (which I didn't go for yet as I have no decent mace to fight with) that gives you another stunn chance on every attack which means you might be on 0 rage and stunn oponent regenerating rage at the same time

Im fury we have cruelty (5% to crit), piercing howl (does not stack with hamstring), improved execute and whirlwid and bloodthirst. They sound good but still after discussions with Rawrrz and Akaris I think arms is better for pvp I just need few more points to get to mortal strike

Generally up to lvl 40-45 there's not much in arms and I would recommend fury for leveling At higher levels I still think that arms has more useful abilities than fury but I'm standing here to be proved wrong so if you think different fire away

No actualy, its just a couple of oppinions, as I said before somwhere never played arms so dont know anything about its game mechanics. It only seems so slow to me for PvPing. The game is getting on pretty fast and a warrior with a 3 secs duration weapon stroke seems too slow for that enviroment to me. Commanding presence with improved berserker stance and rampage, along with flurry and enrage is whole lot of fast damage. And improved execute all others in the fury tree for PvP are not that important I bealive.When I have some time and money Ill try all three specs and some combos on my old warrior and get back to this topic. We are pretty much gessing here any way.

It also depends on weapons I prefer slower but high damage to fast and light Sometimes I crit for over 1k with this weapon (I think max was 1.4k as execute which is not normal crit so doesn't really count but I had other crits in the region of 1k) I have which means I might get someone from 30%hp to 0 in one swing... In Bgs this means that when I'm finished with one fellow all I need is to intercept and hit other lad who's fighting with my party members. This might be better than 3 or 4 swings with your dw and faster weapons as some of them might be parried or dodged. Of course my attack might be dodged, blocked and parried as well but then I go overpower which is instant and won't be blocked and with arms specc will crit most of the time It's also easier to break shields with high damage as it might go after one shot and in bgs we usually play as a team so even if i have 3.8s to next swing I can either use whirlwind (instant and not dependant on weapon speed) or other party members can nuke away and take ally down as shield is already gone

Once you get your 2 main instant attacks, Whirlwind and Mortal Strike things get abit easier, as atm your waiting on slow swing timers etc.

I know, in the end all comes down on personal preference
Im still gonna do my little experiment later on. I would need like 3 or 4 days to do it properly and and some 300 g I guess. Im just interested how different specs will fare in BGs. Ill do an protection run as well

Let us know how it went

Sure thing, but it will not be all that soon

No worries mate I think fury might be better for dual wielding and arms for heavy 1h weapons Don't know why

The tree specialization I guess. Fury is smaller amounts of damage but fast, arms is one slow big hit. In the end I gather they amount the same

I tiried the other day to lvl with dw (just to keep my 1h axe skills at high level) and it was much slower for me... maybe it's because I still use these glutton cleavers from RFD (have 2 of them) and damage output is not great (lvl36 weapon from memory)... Basically I was taking mobs down much quicker with my 2h axe.

Nyctalus wrote:USE REND against rogues, keeps them from stealthing

This is somewhat true but it won't prevent vanish. Rogues who have even a little clue on how to play a rogue can time their vanish between DoT ticks and get in a quick cheap shot even while in combat BUT they indeed cannot run out of line of sight and restealth.

This thread is dead, I know but I was just browsing these old threads and remembered one good tip on how to improve your dps with your big fat two hander: wait for the first white dmg to show up, then as soon as you see it, hit either MS or WW, wait for another white, then MS or WW depending on which is up. AFAIK the swing timer resets after every instant attack so it's best to use your instants right AFTER a normal swing. ^_^

Thanks mate That's what I try to do MS and WW have separate cd (global cd is still there though) so I use them whenever they are up My sequence is usually white, ww (less rage so it's up quicker), white, MS (if I have enough rage) and all over again till I can hit execute Of course depending on target I use hamstring, sunder, demo and full list of other stuff

Teshija wrote:Well tanking higher level instances like blood furnace

Sry fot bumping but have we been playing this long ... that we said thinks like this...