RL rears it's ugly head......

Gents,

Real Life is throwing up some issues for me at the moment, as such my involvement in the more time/concentration consuming events will be minimal for the forseeable future. I'm hoping to be logged on a fair bit but raids are completely out for me and probably HC runs too. I need to expend my energies on sorting out RL first and foremost and my game time will be totally for relaxing.

As such I'll probably be mostly knocking about on Ermintroll for a while, levelling him up and such.

Soon as I get sorted though I'll be back on for groovy healing fun

Boilers are kicking ass. No worries m8 you do your stuff!
Well be here!

See you soon!

Im normaly not one to accept slacking ...... and i aint about to start.....

Hehe all kiding aside, fair play mate you got to do what you got to do this is supose to be fun.... and we be around. i just hope to still cu around here on forum and also on vent and as Ermintroll.

One point though i hope you dont feel like the game has become a burden and that you blame yor self for our whipes. We all are on a learning curve and i never NEVER blame anyone (well hevy on some occotions... ) for misstakes made in raids. But if you feel to overwelmed as healer just respec ret and do some DPS insteed.... The main thing though imo is that you stick around i like to here *grooovie* now and again on vent...

I might be misstaken thou i just thought i throw it out there. Anyhow hope it all sorts itself out for you ...

Well at least I dont think he blames himself. If he does I would come in england and kick him in his butt!

Anyways no reason to blame anybody for wipes (well sometimes Heavy, but on those occasions its usualy he who dies while the rest of us run away)

hmmm i wounder how many hits you would get if you did a search on "heavy" and "whipe" on this forum..... ..... probably a close second to "awsomnes" and "Lea"...... .... good i love my confidens i meen how many DPS can be out DPS by the tank and still be this coucky....

Only you my dear
BTW what is up with you and that sill low DPS? Why dont you work out some rotations or something to maximise it?
You have any enchants on and such?
Do we know why are you so low on DPS? MAybe you are doing too much AoE, try hitting single mob targets or something. We can pull few instance test runs?

Teshija wrote:Anyways no reason to blame anybody for wipes (well sometimes Heavy, but on those occasions its usualy he who dies while the rest of us run away)

Those wipes and/or "oh shit!" moments just make me laugh everytime! The famous line " *whistles innocently* " is pure win, keep it up Buc!


I thought I'd make a similar topic actually but I'll just throw it in here: I've had some problems in real life too, lately; fighting with parents, school not going too well etc etc but we talked about it and things are looking better now. When I said I don't want to raid anymore, I exaggerated a bit but tbh I'm more into PvP and when the dual-spec system hits live realms, I'm going to focus more on the PvP side of the game. Nevertheless, I'll be there if you really need one more healer but for now, we'll see.

As for Lea's DPS; go smack the target dummies next to Hunter trainers in Orgrimmar. I know nothing about mages' DPS rotations but here's a thread that'll DEFINETLY help you out: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t40824-mage_pve_dps_wotlk/

Generally if you want general info about WoW, go to:

-www.wowwiki.com
-www.wowhead.com
-forums.wow-europe.com , read the stickies and do searches in the appropriate forums.

PvE-only info:

-www.elitistjerks.com

and Google is always your friend. Just some general and obvious tips 'n' tricks, do some research and your questions will be answered.

EDIT: Oh dear god, almost forgot: hope things get sorted soon Temple!!

Hope things will get sorted out soon Temp.

As regards dps, remember that different classes do different kinds of damage.
Locks, which are the only class I know something about, do increased dps the longer the fight lasts. Mages, I think, do more burst damage. It's not just a matter of the "raw" dps value. Being able to burn down a large number of adds quickly, for example, can be of more value than the actual dps number shows.

Plus when the new patch gets online everything will be throw back into the mixer.

Thanks for the encouragement dudes

I'll still be online don't worry about that - and tbh I'll probably be on almost as much as usual, just that I'll be doing carefree stuff like levelling and BGs on Ermin mostly (I'm sure I can squeeze in an HC now and again too), and of course talking my usual rubbish in /g

As for the wipes, I don't blame myself for them - though I believe I was certainly a strong contributing factor, and I take my healing quite seriously - and it's partly why I've decided to put them on hold for the moment. Not *because* of the wipes, but because my mind is on other things at the moment and I can't concentrate enough on the raids to help try and pull them back from the brink/pick up dances quick enough/figure out where I'm supposed to be standing etc.... if you see what I mean.

An example (amusing hopefully):

Sartharion, healng nicely - tank is at full health

<daydream>
*oh I must remember to take this paperwork to my accountant tomorrow*
</daydream>

Whoah lava!............

That sort of idea. It doesn't help me - or anyone else when I'm like that

[quote="Gredeth"]

Teshija wrote:
Those wipes and/or "oh shit!" moments just make me laugh everytime! The famous line " *whistles innocently* " is pure win, keep it up Buc!

Yea it became a light motiff of our runs. Want to make it an arena team name

It's now my fault lads... it's this damn ghoul, I'm telling ya ffs... heheh ^^ Sure it keeps everyone on their toes I can't let you get bored in raid or HC, can I? Massive and unexpected pulls make you all more skilled Expect unexpected and hope for the best!

Back on topic - I hope you'll sort it all out soon Temple Good that you'll be around for a friendly banter and I really hope you'll find some time every now and then to run some stuff with us

I'm busy over last few days as well as my old company gave me one off job offer to finalize account on the job I was looking after when I was with them. So I'm in work now and will be for next few days which means I won't be online during the day and very little in the evenings till the end of next week I think

Ok i see what you meen Temp... some casuall gaming is whats needed from time to time...

And for my DPS. first of all mages are realy bad right now nothing can be helpt about that. The rotation i have twikt and workt on and my gear as well. The thing here is twofold. First im slacking a bit when we clear mobs sure i should focus more and making the rotation correctly and so on but on bosses i have more focus... Second my spec is like that im good on raidbosses but will never give good dps against trach thats not the ide whit this spec. And my rotation is so that i need to be stationary for most of the time due to long casting time and if i need to move i will get alot of downtime sins i dont get any spells of. This is crusal whit my spec. I dont knowe about how mutch you critt but i critt about 10000 50% of the time but i do that every 3 sec give or take if i have to move in this 3 sec its 6 sec then 9 sec etc befor i get a shot of. I have some other stuff as well but that depands on me geting those critt and if dont get any shots of i dont get that as well. But my scortch at least gives the entire raid a 10 % critt increese against the target and that aint bad.... But as Twila sad maybe next patch will steir things up a bit...

my spec is like that im good on raidbosses but will never give good dps against trach thats not the ide whit this spec.

The idea with trash is to get them down, not to do superior DPS on them. Rogues need to get their Slice and Dice + Rupture combos going to bring in the big numbers in the DPS charts and obviously that doesn't work on trash because they die fast, so mages aren't the only one "suffering from bad DPS on trash".

Temple wrote:

Sartharion, healng nicely - tank is at full health

<daydream>
*oh I must remember to take this paperwork to my accountant tomorrow*
</daydream>

Whoah lava!............

That sort of idea. It doesn't help me - or anyone else when I'm like that

Well Temples dont remember if I ever died because of you not healing. Its true ye may have wondered off now and then but you did nicely m8 daydreams or not. Regardless what you say here you know when raid are happening and if you feel relaxed enough you know you can always join
And also remember we can always give you some boost for ermin!

Hmmm - Lea, have you tired the other way round? I mean improve your dmg on trash fights and loose small bit on boss? I think our current setup lacks a bit of AoE power and some improved AoE on trash could help a lot especially now when we'll face construct quater with these slimes and multiple pulls.

Don't take me wrong but I think you could be on top of dps/dmg chart focusing more on AoE than on boss fights (but meters are not important tbh - our pace shows how good/bad our dps/AoE is and we are bit slow on clearing trash).

This setup you use is great for 25 mans (or so I think anyway) where you have few more AoErs to do the job but in 10man where we have mainly melee and single target casters mage's AoE could really make a difference when clearing trash on the way to boss.

Who do we usually have?

Warrior (Ghostway)
DK (Kolxa)
DK (Heavyhoof)
Rogue (Hellseth or Shooz or some other pug)
Warlock (Twila)
Mage (Leannah)

You see where I'm coming from? Me and Kolxa have some nice AoE (D&D and Pestilence) but that's about it and D&D generates tons of threat so we have to be careful with it. I don't know how much AoE can Warlock add to raid and Warrior and Rogue have few abilities to attack multiple targets (WW and so on) but it is usually mage that burns trash down with his AoE.

Many times in pugs I've seen Mages hitting 7, 8 or 9k dps (or more!) on trash and 'only' 2-2.5k on bosses but our way to bosses was like a walk in the park thanks to them

Think about it mate Maybe try more AoE focused build for now and see how it goes We really lack heavy AoE in my opinion and you're our only mage When we move on to 25man it'll be different story altogether

That's only suggestion though If you don't like AoE idea just forget about what I wrote

Teshija wrote:Well Temples dont remember if I ever died because of you not healing. Its true ye may have wondered off now and then but you did nicely m8 daydreams or not. Regardless what you say here you know when raid are happening and if you feel relaxed enough you know you can always join
And also remember we can always give you some boost for ermin!

Indeed and if I can I will no worries there matey adn thanks for the offer of ermin boostings, all you glorious groovers and endlessly kind and awesome - I'm so glad I'm in this guild!

To cut to the other conversation on this thread, I spend a bit of time on the forums whilst I'm at work and in between tasks/meetings, from what I read general consensus runs along the lines that DPS 'worthiness' is gauged against boss fights and recount only.

Now I ave a couple of opinions on this - the most important being the last:

1) Recount is buggy, this has been mentioned a few times around the forums.
2) AOE, by it's very nature, will win out on overall damage every time. Be it HPS (healing per second) or DPS - this is just plain logic.
3) and this is the important one as far as I'm concerned..... who gives a crap about DPS/HPS tables, if you come out of the experience having had fun and perhaps an epic item or two, you win!

DPS/HPS efficiency is an interesting talking point, a lot of people get a bit to anal about it though IMO.

(someone's going to bring up DPS race bosses now aren't they and I'm gonna look like a right tit........ )

Temple - sure charts/recount is not the main thing to look at but at the stage we're at it really helps to improove our rotations/talents When we all be (or at least me) sitting at 3k mark my recount will be disabled for good The only reason I keep it up is because I still try different rotations, fooling around with different spells/talents to check what gives best dmg/dps output Maybe I'm too anal about it but for me it's fun when we tear everything apart in seconds instead of mindlessly hitting one target for 10min waiting for healers to run oom (I am exaggerating, I know )

Recount says fuck all about us as group because sometimes some dps can be assigned to kiting/tanking boss or adds while we nuke other target and his dmg/dps will drop big time but does it mean he didn't perform well? Hell no! He was of a great help to raid/progress even though he didn't end up at the top of the list. Recount comes handy when you experiment with different stuff and then check every encounter whether it works better for you or not.

You can see whether your build is better for multiple trash pulls or for single target boss fights thanks to it but I wouldn't judge overall dps only by looking at it. We should all use it to tune our builds/rotations to maximize our damage and when we have perfect setup just disable it for good and have fun

We are still learning (I am for one anyway) how to use our classes to its fullest and it just indicates whether new rotation you decided to try is better or worse than previous one and that's it.

Of course when we see someone's dps at below 1k mark on normal fights there must be something terribly worng with his/her gear/build/rotation and we should all help this person to improve it (if we can and if this person is willing to improve)

You mentioned DPS race encounters like (for example) Loatheb. Does it matter who was on top of the list if we all wipe? Will you say then ''I've done my bit, I topped the meters, all fine at my end''? I don't give a shit who topped the meeter if we wipe because we go there as a group and we should work as group and not try to be bunch of individuals looking at their own stats.

Yup - I can't argue with that, at the higher end it does become more important I guess, particularly your comment about the sub-1k DPS pug dude, I know we've had guys like that PUG'd into our raids; that half-tank, half-DPS DK (warrior?) we had the other day comes to mind.

One thing I've just though of, can training dummies be used to calculate HPS? I have no idea what my HPS is. Particularly as overhealing is almost a given for Holy Pallys.

DPS/HPS efficiency is an interesting talking point, a lot of people get a bit to anal about it though IMO.

That would be me....fuck it i'm elitist! Just don't call me out on it! ;P

As for the damage / healing meters. As you all have said, they only take into account the raw numbers ( Average at best too ). Not the fact that X class is better at X many trash pulls, X class is good purely on X type of boss encounters....etc etc.

I'd say the DPS / Healing meters are only good for certain things:

1, DPS races - Who's slacking, who needs a shoutin' at etc.
2, Gothik the Harvester - What group setup up is needed / How many healers would best suit a high burst group.
3, What healing class is best suited for what boss / instance.

All of this is only realy viable once you've got your build / glyphs / gear / rotations sorted out. Infact DPS / Healing meters help determine this. Just bear inmind that it show raw numbers, not actual view on the fight - Only the players know that.

I wana point out that exploring game mechanics and theorycrafting does prove useful for lots of top guilds - The infos there, just gota use it. I know lots of people hate the idea of getting that serious into theorycrafting.


I gota agree tho...sometimes just tearing shit up is the way to go!



Off topic: Anyone else noticed we tend to high-jack offtopic threads and have these " heavy " talks.

well ther has been a lot sad on this topic sins i was last in thats for sure...

I will look over my spec and see if there is anything to be do there...

Gredeth wrote:As for Lea's DPS; go smack the target dummies next to Hunter trainers in Orgrimmar. I know nothing about mages' DPS rotations but here's a thread that'll DEFINETLY help you out: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t40824-mage_pve_dps_wotlk/

Generally if you want general info about WoW, go to:

-www.wowwiki.com
-www.wowhead.com
-forums.wow-europe.com , read the stickies and do searches in the appropriate forums.

PvE-only info:

-www.elitistjerks.com

and Google is always your friend. Just some general and obvious tips 'n' tricks, do some research and your questions will be answered.

EDIT: Oh dear god, almost forgot: hope things get sorted soon Temple!!

Thx for the thred Gre its defelently interesting im reading now...

Hmm according to this frostfire is now only "desent dps" anf fireball and arcane a re "excelent" although mana is an issue ... well i will defelently respec and try to get in some AoE as well however it tears my hart apport that ither way leannah will no longet be "cool".... But i might be "Hot" or maybe........ well i need to think about it.....